Roth: American Pastoral
"His great looks, his larger-than-lifeness, his glory, our sense of his having been exempted from all self-doubt by his heroic role -- that all these manly properties had precipitated a political murder made me think of the compelling story . . . of Kennedy" (83). In what ways do American Pastoral's political metaphors reflect the story of mid-century America? Why might they be presented through a Kennedy-like figure?
Note: You should have finished the first two sections of this book before answering this question. Please post your comment no later than Thursday, March 22, 4:30pm.
posted by Monica @ 1:03 AM
30 Comments:
At 6:24 PM,
Jennifer said…
I think that American Pastoral reflects the mid-century America just by the roles that the characters take on. In that time period it was very typical for young teens and people in college to rebel against America and what it stands for. This book takes place during a time of a lot of riots and protest of what these people thought were right. I think that Swede is the Kennedy-like figure because he is the "great American boy" and tries to do everything right. That is what Kennedy represented. The story takes a better position because in the end Merry is ruining her father’s great reputation by being the typical rebellious daughter in that time period. They might of presented through this kind of figure because it is easy to relate to. We have all known a person like Swede and can understand his struggles.
At 8:26 PM,
Anonymous said…
I have to agree with Jennifer on the Swede being the ideal, almost super-human. This guy couldn't have done anything wrong if he tried (like Kennedy's little fling with Marylin Monroe that Americans seemed not to notice.) This story takes place in the time of Elvis and his pelvis and the rock and roll revolution, hippies, black panthers and Vietnam. Unrest in the characters represents the unrest that was taking place in America at the time the story was set.
At 2:37 PM,
Adam Miklius said…
I feel that American Pastoral really does a good job in showing how uneasy this time period was with politics. The book uses this larger than life character the Swede to show that the American dream and what that truly means is being called into question by the younger generation. The Swede was everything that most males would look up too handsome, athetlic and almost a hero but this book really calls into question if this is what truly can make you happy. Both the Swede and JFK seemed to always want to please people but in this age there was no way to please everyone, social views were being challenged and men like these were being hurt along the way.
At 6:22 PM,
brittany t said…
I agree with Paige that the Swede couldn't do anything wrong if he tried. It seemed to me like people put him up on a pedestal almost like Kennedy was. I think that American Pastorial shows all of the craziness that occured during the time of the war. It shows that nobodies life was easy during this time. It shows the disagreements during the time involved everyone.
At 5:33 PM,
Anonymous said…
In American Pastoral, political metaphors reflected in certain ways to the extent of that everyone wanted to be someone improtant, someone with money and a know how on what their American dream was. And to make life better in that sense. They may have been presented in a Kenndey life figure because Kennedy was a well rounded person, “the all american boy”, who really wanted what was best for his family, country and the future of the United States. Therefore, Kennedy had dreams just like the average american did. I agree with Jennifer; I too, also believe that Swede is the Kennedy like character in this because on the outside, to people, everything seemed to gravatate towards Swede just like Kennedy. I also agree with Brittney, in the fact that she says that this book shows all the craziness, and that’s a good thing because when we put people (like in Kennedy’s situation or Swede’s) we look deeper into their lives. They are just as crazy and “normal” as all the rest of us in the hard/good times.
At 6:54 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with most everyone so far that the Swede and Kenedy have similarities in that they are both the "All American" captain of the football team type personality. I think it is just another way that Roth has chosen to comment on this time in our countries past. I think that Curtis might be right that Roth doesn't mean the title of this book as it may seem. I think he uses in a more ironic way than really cynical, but I think it is a comment on how even the times that we may think of as being perfect, also had their imperfections. Many people now look back on the 50's and 60's and think of them as the good old days; but you can see in Roth's novel that the Swede often thinks of his childhood and younger days when Newark was a safe place as the good ole days. I think Roth does a really good job of showing the different sides of this time in our country's past.
At 10:16 AM,
kelli m said…
I agree with what everyone has said so far. The Swede was as close to perfect as you can get in the eyes of the average onlooker. He wanted to do everything right and hoped that his life would turn out great because of it. I feel like he is similar to JFK because they were both known as these handsome, hard working, good men. They wanted everyone to see them as men who would do everything in their power to make the world and their lives the best it could be. I also feel like Roth was showing how chaotic the US was in the 50s and 60s. There were constant riots and acts of violence which some people could relate to and others who were far from understanding. There were people who felt like they did the right thing by killing others for standing up for what they believed was right and others who were driven crazy by these people and went insane trying to rationalize with these acts of violence. This novel did a good job of showing you how crazy and confused you could have felt living the US back then.
At 3:01 PM,
Anonymous said…
The Swede was the genuine All-American high school athlete and the hero of his time in his hometown. This is a metaphor to the life of Kennedy and how he started out to be America’s hero at that time in our nation’s history. The Swede, like Kennedy, did seem to lead the perfect life of being people pleasers and always doing the right then. The political metaphors seem to be the downfall of the Swede while also being the downfall of Kennedy. The Vietnam War caused many Americans to rebel against Kennedy/Johnson and Merry to rebel against her family and everything her parents stood for. In agreement with Allison, I think Roth was trying to represent that this period of our history was not the greatest of times and many people did have to struggle to keep their families together.
At 5:19 PM,
Johanna Stouder said…
I agree with Adam when he says that this book did a really good job in portraying the different ideas that were circulating in mid-century America. You had the Swede who we all agree represented the Kennedy-like figure and then you had Merry who represented the complete opposite, being involved with communism and senseless bombings.
In many instances I was amazed that the same person was writing this book because he represented both sides. For instance, the Swede was like Kennedy in that he wanted to keep his business American owned and value his employees. He even stayed too long in his location just to keep the peace. Merry on the other hand represented those that opposed Kennedy. All they could see was the injustice that was occuring in America and as a result they took it out on any American especially those who seemed to be doing well and were content.
At 8:36 AM,
Samantha R said…
At this turbulent time in history, Kennedy was not only seen as a role model, but as a sign of faith that everything was going to be all right. People put their faith into this man and he took this role very seriously and did his best not to let his country down. Swede was a lot like this. He did everything in his power not to let the people around him down. This even cost the Swede when it came to his own life. Imagine all of the pain he must have felt when things didn't turn out as planned (i.e. Merry killing people). But once again he stayed strong and he never let people see what he was feeling.
At 11:51 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Curtis in that American Pastoral makes a statement of how chaotic the middle of the century was by mentioning the riots and protests that were taking place during this time in our countries history. During this time in politics some people went crazy and even killed those with different beliefs. I think that Merry is a good representation of these people in our history because she was involved with communism. I agree with everyone in that the Swede represents Kennedy by having all of the characteristics of being the all American boy that does everything right and is looked up to by everyone. To me this novel shows the reader that this time period was far from perfect and that people’s lives were not as good as they are today.
At 2:26 PM,
Amy S. said…
I think that Allison makes a good point in saying that the title of the book is more ironic than cynical. In viewing the Swede as the "kennedy figure," is easy to see why the title of the book can be viewed as being ironic. From the outside looking in,the Swede was perfect, as we all agree, Roth allowed the Swede's image to match up with the way that America viewed Kennedy's image. Then Roth threw in Merry, who went completely against every expectation that went along with the Swede. The idea behind a pastoral is that everything is peaceful, however, I think that through his title, Roth was making a statement about the fact that not everything is as is seems.
At 3:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Allison that when Swede looks back on his past, he sees it as the good old days. The time in which he is living is a time of rebellion and of people wanting to be different. Merry wants to rebel against her parents, not because they had done anything wrong, but because she has her own radical ideas of how life should be that her parents do not believe in. I agree with Jennifer when she says that Swede relates to Kennedy by being the "great American boy." Swede just wanted to please everyone just like Kennedy. People of this time rebelled against Kennedy and the government just like Merry rebels against her parents.
At 5:00 PM,
kerri d said…
Philip Roth does an excellent job of expressing the American Image during the 50s and 60s. Through Swede he stresses the idea of individuality that many embraced. Swede demonstrates personal success through work and family. Roth also shows the effects of World War II through his characters. Americans, but especially the Jewish communities (Swede’s community) concentrate on success and positive images. The middle class lifestyle became every family’s goal. Ultimately Roth writes to express his view on the political and societal unrest and changes during the 50s and 60s.
At 5:45 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with the previous posts. The Swede was confident, in-line, obedient, and trusting, and he gave an air of calm collection and good-ol-boy attractiveness that Kennedy seemed to show us, also. Their lives were so wholesome and appealing that it seems hard to imagine anything going wrong with them. But life is not perfect, and there are issues below the surface that we don't see and don't expect. The Swede had Merry; Kennedy had his partying and, finally, his death. For the Swede to have Merry made him more like the rest of us. It was a tragedy, and people can identify with that. Kennedy's death was also a tragedy. These unfortunate circumstances help us to relate to one another because humanity is anything but perfect.
At 6:05 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with what most people have posted... the Swede was the Kennedy- like figure. Some one that seems so in control of his life and his country. On the other hand you have the Swede's daughter Merry, who like many Americans during the time grew up believing in their political leaders. Only when they started thinking for themselves did they become the Counter-culture that represents Merry. In the book we see the splitting of Merry and the Swede like we saw the splitting of the generations of the 60s.
At 9:22 PM,
Anonymous said…
I feel that the rest of the class and I are basically on the same page in terms of agreeing that the Swede seems to represent the Kennedy-like figure. In my opinion, the Swede is an ordinary man who happens to shape his life to measure what most interpret as the American Dream. Because the Swede is an ordinary person, raised in New Jersey with ordinary parents, he is idolized due to the fact that he posses certain qualities and traits that make him attractive to many outsiders (i.e. athletic, lovable, the perfect package. Then he goes onto marry a beauty queen, inherit a good business, and move to prosperous farm.) He is the perfect target for people who thrive off of others to gain a sense of their own balance and stance. Like the very well respected and idolized JFK for the US, the Swede is like the JKF for his community. Both are leaders, both seem to have it all, which is what the American dream seems to interpret, and most of all both seem “picture perfect” on the outside. But, what is the American dream really? Is it a good reputation, wealth, or a level of importance? To many the Swede and JFK seemed to be familiar with it, but in the novel it seems as though many fantasized about what they thought they had and overlooked their true reality. In reality, is the American Dream actually obtainable, or are you left wanting more and more? Roth seems to draw a beautiful portrait of what America, yet its really nothing like it seems
At 12:31 AM,
Anonymous said…
The characters in American Pastoral parallel many aspects of American culture during the sixties. The Swede, much like Kennedy, was held as an idol, and seen as a god by young Zuckerman. Even as an adult, "Skip" could not shake this image of the Swede. Merry's rebelious behavior represents the riots and chaos of the time period. The Swede's feelings about Merry represent many people's sentiments toward america at the time...it was a love/hate relationship. Finally, turbulent times break the Swede and change his life forever, just as the turbulence of the sixties changed many aspects of american life.
At 1:21 AM,
BlainMcDowell said…
As numerous people before have mentioned, the time period in which part two takes place in is one of turmoil and chaos, and blowing up a post office is certainly representative of that. It's also a political statement. It's ironic that they compare him to Kennedy because it is ultimately the political war between Kennedy and Johnson that Merry ends up protesting and "demonstrating" against. Like Kennedy, Swede also stands out as an everyday hero. He is seemingly unbreakable and is able to make sound decisions even when under pressure. The fact that he dies in his mid-forties unexpectedly also links him to Kennedy and is a profound way of yet again linking them together. Like the story of the Kid from Tomskinsville, it is a story of great promise, followed by heartbreak and
At 2:49 AM,
Paul Shelton said…
Roth does something very interesting. Yes, he does make Swede the "all american boy", but more than that; Roth, as Brittany said, puts Swede up on a pedestal which I think is interesting because as the Jewish community is glowing with respect for a rising star in their community, they are also filled with hatred for a group trying to rise in their social status. It's also interesting to see how petty the people can be with both their love and hate. As mentioned, one of the things that links the Swede to Kennedy is the fact that people were in love with the man while ignoring his faults and romanticiszing him.
At 10:14 AM,
Unknown said…
I think the Swede kind of represents America and the disappointment that is the American dream. The United States is often times seen as this super power that many countries kind of model themselves after. The Swede was also seen as like this super human that everyone in the Jewish communtiy wanted to be like. He seemingly had everything, a thriving business, money, a family, the ex-beauty queen wife, athletic abilities and a heart of gold. From the outside it would seem that he had everything under control, but really he didn't. His family was a mess and there were issues with his business. I think that is alot of the reason Roth made Swede into a Kennedy like figure, he too had everything and was leading a country that seemingly had everything, but really he was surrounded by chaos. The chaos in Swedes life paralleled the chaos going on in the Untied States at the time.
At 11:41 AM,
Unknown said…
I think most of the class has the same feelings and ideas about Swede's and Kennedy's similarities as me. Both serve as representatives of the typical "all-American" who succeeds in living out the American Dream. Both are good-looking, strong leaders that experience death at a young age. I like what Paige said about the characters' unrest being representative of the political unrest that is experienced in America during Swede's time.
I also agree with Amy S., that the title of the book is ironic because in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s, America was haunted with the Vietnam War. Because so many people were in complete disagreement with the war, America was anything but a peaceful and simple place.
At 11:52 AM,
Anonymous said…
Many of us seem to agree that Swede and Kennedy are similiar in their popularity and personality. I also believe, however, that they hold similiar views of the meaning of the American dream. Both believed in the goodness in people and took pride in doing the right thing. The time period is represented with rebellion and riots and such, but at the same time, many people still believed that if you do the right thing you would get rewarded. It is sad that both leaders were hit with such a harsh reality.
At 1:10 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with everyone's statements about the Swede and Kennedy both being super-human and the all American boy types. I think that these the mid-century metaphors and in-depth descriptions were used to make this such a classic book. It took a sort of snap shot of what life was like during the time and included things like political goings on and other cultural aspects. This book seems to me to function in a similar role as The Great Gatsby for the 20's. They both seem to tell a story, not just of characters, but of life in an American era. I also agree with everyone that Kennedy is used because of his physical and mental similarities to the Swede and because of how the American public viewed him as larger than life.
At 1:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
I believe that he resembles a Kennedy figure because a lot of people saw Kennedy as a savouir of America. During that time period there were so many bad things happening around American's they needed someone to put on a pedistal, even if he was worthy. The same thing happened with The Swede, he wasn't a perfect guy, but because he was different, he was elevated to greatness.
At 1:55 PM,
Torey said…
After reading everyone’s responses I think that most of us have come to the same conclusion to how American Pastoral reflects the story of Mid-America. Swede is this all American boy much like President Kennedy. He is loved by all and can do no wrong in the eyes of his community. The riots and protests in which Merry participates, show the chaos in that time period. Merry is the opposite of Swede in the end by rebelling, she ruins his good name and is not someone everyone can rely on like they could on her father.
At 1:55 PM,
Lisa W said…
It is obvious that the entire class is in agreement that Kennedy and Swede are paralleled in this novel. On another tangent, the entire story is told from Zuckerman’s view. There is no evidence that the Swede actually had a rebellious daughter. In fact, in a sense I feel as if Roth was trying to portray Zuckerman’s feelings about Swede. I think that Zuckerman just couldn’t accept the idea that a family could have survived turbulent America without hardships, and so he makes up this chaotic life of the Swede. American Pastoral… is it truly that turbulent or is that just how Roth wants us to view it?
At 2:12 PM,
Anonymous said…
The whole class thought similarly in response to the Swede and Kennedy. It seemed as if the Swede pleased everyone; everyone looked at him and thought he was picture perfect, by being such a good athlete with good looks. He represented what people wanted to be. I also believe that during this time period, things were changing, and people were probably "testing the waters" seeing if people would get reactions for acting certain ways. So, in that sense, he definetely is in comparison to Kennedy. His status was similar, people were interested in his life, and thought he was somewhat the "ideal" man. Things were changing, but at the same time our country was becoming quite violent, and people viewed actions differently. Some would disagree with the riots, when others would take part in them. Roth set an understanding tone in this novel expressing how life and how people therefore, reacted to eachother's actions.
At 2:21 PM,
Joanna said…
America looked up to JFK not just because he was the president but because he gave them courage to push through the hard times. In a way Zuckerman looked up to the Swede in that same sense. He idealized him. He thought he was larger than life. When he was a kid just one sentence out of the Swedes mouth made a huge impact on Skip Zuckermans life. The Swede was the JFK of that Newark neighborhood. He was different. Being Jewish in a non-Jewish neighborhood. And JFK was different in being so young in an office full of old people.
At 2:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think the book showed the Swede as an above average guy, who could do no wrong. People really looked up to him as well because during this era politics were shaky at best. The American Pastoral really gave me something that I could compare the war in Iraq to that is currently going on. This book also reminds me a lot of what goes on in the movie Forest Gump, and I think that helped paint the picture for me as I read.
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