Chopin: The Awakening
In chapter VIII, Madame Ratignolle says to Robert of Edna: "She is not one of us; she is not like us. She might make the unfortunate blunder of taking you seriously" (64). What does she mean by this? How is Edna different? What instances are there where Edna's marginal or outsider role affects or hinders her participation in Creole society?
Please post your response by 4pm on Thursday, September 7.
posted by Monica @ 7:53 PM
33 Comments:
At 8:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
When Madame Ratignolle makes the comment to Robert about Edna not being like the rest of the Creole society, she is basically taking a jab at Edna and what she has to offer. Edna is different from the others in her community because she was raised in the Protestant South and has different views then what the rest of them think. Edna from being raised somewhere different already feels a seperation from the rest. She meets Robert which makes things more confusing on her part as a mother and wife. Her husband does not take much notice to her or appreciate what she does nor do her children. With feeling this sense of not being loved Edna resorts to Robert who she is infatuated with, which causes her many problems. In chapter 14, it it is brought to Edna's attnetion that Etienne is not behaving and not going to sleep. Madame Ratignolle brings this to Edna as if she is a bad mother for not caring for her own children. Madame Ratignolle is much of what the Creole society is supposed to be with her motherly skills, looks and values. Edna is quite the opposite of that. She feels that she needs to stand her own especially when it comes to her husband and the way he treats her. All of these examples are why Edna is not the prime image of a Creole society and why she stands out from the rest.
At 8:52 PM,
Anonymous said…
I feel that the statement made by Madame Ratignolle means that Mrs. Pontellier is not a part of Creole society thus unable to distinguish between fact and fiction. I also feel that Madame Ratignolle is make reference to the fact that Mrs. Pontellier belongs to a different class, (aristocrat) were as they, Robert and Madame Ratignolle reside in a lower social class, thus incomprhensible.
I also notice Mrs. Pontellier's outsider role hindered her participation in Creole Society when she was unable to swim with the rest of the women in the Grand Isle community. I think that the inability to swim, which was a common to the Creole community as breathing, set up a barrier between her and the rest Creoles.
At 8:28 AM,
Anonymous said…
I think that Madame Ratignolle tells Robert this because she is trying to protect him and this is the easiest way for her to do so. Madame Ratignolle knows Edna fairly well to know that she is not the 'type' of person that Robert should be pursuing. I also agree with the other two postings that they are from two different classes as well as possessing different outlooks on life.
At 11:51 AM,
Anonymous said…
I believe that Madame Ratignolle feels that if Edna takes him seriously then something might happen between them. She does want Edna to do something she will regret, and it was easier to say something to Robert rather than confront Edna about her actions. Madame Ratignolle knows that Edna is different and is not a Creole or follow their views in society. Edna does what she wants and doesn't worry what others will think. For example; the night she swam in the ocean, and not wanting to watch over her children. She has a carefree attitude...but I think the way her husband treats her is what makes her keep pursuing independence. She acts as though she is not married.
At 11:53 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree that Edna has a completely different outlook on life, but I don't necessarily think their social class has much to do with her actions. I think has to do with how she feels about herself and she is not comfortable with the Creole society...
At 2:24 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Ashley T. I do not believe that Edna’s outlook on life has to do with her social class. Many of Edna’s friends belong to the same social class. These people do seem to belong within the Creole society. Edna does not seem to belong due to her insight of her own self-identity. She is an outcast because she makes herself that way. This can be seem especially at the end of the novel when she moves to the smaller house, ignores her friends, and begins to have intimate relationships with other men.
At 3:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
Edna was considered an outsider on the Grand Isle, which made her more susceptible to believe that Robert's infatuation was true and worth leaving her societal role as a dutiful wife and mother.
Because she is an outsider, Edna finds herself shocked by the openness with which the women of the Creole society express their emotions and sexuality, which, at first, hinders her participation in Creole society.
At 3:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
I also agree with Ashley T. I feel like Edna has different goals for herself in life. She doesnt really care about what others seem to think about her. She is a very independent person who acts like she is not married, and therefore goes off and has affairs with other men. So I think Madame is saying that other women would not act like that with their husbands the way Edna is acting towards her husband.
At 4:35 PM,
Anonymous said…
I also agree with Ashley T. I feel that Edna definitely looks at life very differently than normal people do. I feel that she is very unhappy with the life that she leads and feels like she is tied down and has little freedom. I think that this is one of the reasons she wants to move into a small home of her own to prove that she can live somewhat independently and that she doesn’t need her husband to support her. The fact that she shows interest in other men also shows that she is looking for a way out of the life that she is currently in.
At 4:44 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think that Kaitlin made a good point when she said that Edna's role as an outsider may be the reason she would take Robert seriously. Although the actions of her husband do also seem to make her want to move away from that life and pursue a different one. She seems to feel trapped in the life that she has, and so she finally moves out of the house into a smaller one so she can live the life she chooses, not the one Leonce wants her to lead.
At 5:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
Besides pointing out that Edna is not a part of the Creole society, Madame Ratignolle's comment also serves to underline the problems that this causes for Edna. Many of the previous postings have mentioned various examples citing Edna's complete removal from the society in which she lives. It seems that Edna's differences allow her to become even more distant from the people she knows, which can be seen when she ends her tradition of staying home on Tuesdays to receive callers. Because she does not and never did belong to the Creole society, Edna has not learned the social nuances that the people within the society share. However, it seems that she manages to turn this deficit into an advantage when she chooses to recognize her individuality and cast off the accepted societal practices for those which she favors.
At 9:51 PM,
Anonymous said…
I believe that when Madame Ratignolle states this she is doing 2 things. 1. Taking an easy jab at Edna as laura stated. She states it seemingly demeaningly as if implying her nieveity in the creole community. 2. I also agree with wendy that she doesnt want robert to begin to like Edna and In him defending her it is as if he is backing her up and turning his back on their community.
She is an independent woman who is set in her ways.
At 10:37 PM,
Anonymous said…
Adele seems to be warning Robert with that comment because she was privy to Edna's confession that she is a free bird, so to speak. She admits that as a child she ran from conformaty (the church and her father).
Edna is an outsider because she was brought up differently. Even when uncomfortable topics are brought up, she merely blushes and tries not to get involved. Personal touch is another area that Edna seems to have problems with. From Edele, Robert, and even her husband, she spurns the contact and rejects it. Due to this, she seems incapable of relationships that the community has established.
In a way, the parot symbolizes Edna's situation. It is caged and unable to live freely. It may say what it like, but no one takes it seriously (only as if it were mockery of that which has already been stated).
At 11:03 PM,
Anonymous said…
I believe the reason Madame Ratignolle speaks to Robert about Edna is because she sees that Edna is going through a time of self discovery. She also notices that Robert has taken an interest in Edna and based on her Creole instincts she does not want to see Edna forsake her family for another man because she views the family as good and important and necessary for a fulfilling life. Madame Ratignolle knows that Edna does not have strong ties to the Creole way of life so Madame Ratignolle believes Edna will be more likely to forsake the Creole way and do as she chooses.
I agree with whomever said that Edna is making herself an outsider. She is doing untraditional things and alienating herself from the Creole society. Its her own fault if she feels like she doesn't fit in.
I also agree with matt in that she made her bed so she should lie in it. If she would just accept her life the way it is she would be a much happier and contented person. She is free, free to love her husband and children, free to draw and paint, free to think of others rather than herself.
At 11:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
I'm on the same page as Matt...not a big fan of the book. I too find that it lacks depth and encourages poor behavior as a result of conflict or strife in life. I think that Edna is a poor representation of the female gender because she is so petty in all realms of life. She lacks decision and fails to step up in any aspect of life (other than ending her own).
I think the book could have ended 50 pages earlier and still have been complete.
At 11:17 PM,
Anonymous said…
Well, the most obvious reason for Madame Ratignolle making that statement is becuase Edna is not Creole. Creole women are known to cater to their husbands and kids. Edna, although she loves her husband and kids it seems to me as if she is not happy with them, as far as getting respect from them. Robert is like that breathe of fresh air. Due to Robert giving her want she has been lacking from her husband and children it makes it easier for her to fall for him, although she is married. Edna is look at as the outsider only because she was raised in a different society, which doesn't focus so much on catering to the husband and her motherly skills are not the same, but that doesn't make her a bad mother
At 11:43 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with what Kaitlin said. I feel that Madame Ratignolle was reminding Robert that Edna was not from their background because she wanted Robert to understand that Edna might be taking him the wrong way. It seems like the Creoles were very open with what they talked about and Madame Ratignolle felt like Robert was only wanting to have fun with Edna and Edna may be taking him too seriously.
I also agree with Matt. I did not like this book and felt let down by the ending. The story only followed the selfish life of a woman who did only what it took to please herself. The only time that she was a good mother to her children was when she wanted to be a good mother. She made it known that she would not be inconvenienced by other people. I just wanted to tell her to grow up. She acted like a little child instead of a grown women who had responsibilities as a wife and a mother.
At 8:19 AM,
Anonymous said…
Firstly, I think that Madame Ratignolle understands that Robert is a flirt. She is making the comment because Edna is not a Creole. She has not grown up in their society and is bound to ake Robert's advances as a way to cheat on her husband and escape the life she dislikes. Creole women in this time were very strict. Perhaps this is why Robert can flirt with them and they know it will not go anywhere. Secondly, I disagree with the comment "she's made her bed, now lie in it." By marrying into this society, I do not think Edna knew what she was getting into. Under Louisiana law at this time, a woman belonged to her husband as a possesion and according to their laws also had the same rights as a mentally ill individual. They were meant to sit and be boring and pretty their whole lives. That to me adds a little perspective to Edna's situation. I am not saying she was right to do all that she did, but it is boring to read stories about people making the right decisions all the time.
At 9:59 AM,
Anonymous said…
I think the reason why Madame Ratignolle said that comment is because Edona comes from different society. And also, I agree with ashley.t, that Edna wanted to live differently than other Creole. However, I can't think her life was filled with joy. As the narrator said "She wanted to swim far out, where no women had swum before.”, she hoped to become an outsider, and also this hope was a kind of desperate one.
Even though her way of living seems selfish for us, she feels her life is caged like a parrot and has no any freedom.
At 10:00 AM,
Anonymous said…
I think the reason why Madame Ratignolle said that comment is because Edona comes from different society. And also, I agree with ashley.t, that Edna wanted to live differently than other Creole. However, I can't think her life was filled with joy. As the narrator said "She wanted to swim far out, where no women had swum before.”, she hoped to become an outsider, and also this hope was a kind of desperate one.
Even though her way of living seems selfish for us, she feels her life is caged like a parrot and has no any freedom.
At 10:08 AM,
Anonymous said…
Hey,
I think I may like this book less then the new facebook. Anna said it best when she said that it could have ended 50 pages earlier and still have been complete. The only truly interesting part of the book is the ending because it at least had something actually happen. The entire book could have just been two lines. Enda grows as a person. Edna does what she does at the end (don't want to give it away).
In regards to the question I definitely think that she was pointing out how independant Enda has become. The author even goes so far as to say that she moves into her own little house, which would be one of the most independant things a person can do. I also really liked Megan V's idea that she is looking for a way out of society because I believe that Edna's inability to adapt to the situation led to her just looking for the easiest way out at the end of the book.
At 10:29 AM,
Anonymous said…
I did not see Madame Ratignolle's comment as something that was meant with animosity. As others said, I think that she is pointing out to Robert that Edna will not receive the same signals from his companionship that the women in the past have. When the comment is made, Edna is not different because of her uncompliant (and sometimes selfish) actions - she was just beginning her "awakening", and even said that before she would have obeyed her husband without thinking twice about it. In the beginning what is most foreign to Edna about the Creole women is the way that they have conversations that are much less restricted in subject matter. During Edna's previous life she always tried to repress her emotions and thoughts that were not ladylike. I think that being around the Creole women and hearing them have this type of verbal freedom, although they have little freedom to choose their actions, is part of what starts Edna on her journey.
Madame Ratignolle recognized the unrest in Edna, and also recognized that she is unaccustomed to the Creole openess. She sees that these combined with the attention of Robert - a man who makes her more happy than her husband - could and eventually does lead to Edna straying from accepted behavior.
At 11:27 AM,
Anonymous said…
I beleive that Madame Ratignolle is trying to just save time and pain for both Robert and Edna. Because of the different background for Edna she is not used to the light hearted whims. I believe she is also protecting Robert from Edna's husband. Even though Edna and her husband aren't head over heels for each other, he is still protective and would not take kindly to Roberts advances.
At 11:30 AM,
Anonymous said…
I beleive that Madame Ratignolle is trying to just save time and pain for both Robert and Edna. Because of the different background for Edna she is not used to the light hearted whims. I believe she is also protecting Robert from Edna's husband. Even though Edna and her husband aren't head over heels for each other, he is still protective and would not take kindly to Roberts advances.
At 11:33 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with everything Ashley said. I believe that Madame Ratignolle is telling Robert to stay away from Edna because she believes or sees that Edna is starting to fall in love with Robert. It would be inappropriate or offensive to Edna is Madame Ratinolle said something to her about the situation so instead she warns Robert. Madame Ratignolle says Edna is different because, the other women do not see anything to Robert’s flirtatious nature, while Edna, on the other hand, is flattered by Robert’s actions. Edna’s whole demeanor is different then the Creole wives. Throughout the story I got a sense that family was not the number one priority for Edna like it was for the other women. She was more worried about herself and didn’t really care about her children. It was also evident when she went to church alone, and then did not return home until very late because she was out with Robert.
At 12:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
I get the impression that Robert is sort of a playboy on the island, and has been for several years. Chopin writes about some of the women who have previously held his attention during past summers, including Madame Ratignolle. Clearly, he makes it a habit to show attention to a woman each summer and his flirtation is just a distraction for him.
In the Creole society on the island, propriety is not as high of a priority as it was wherever Edna was brought up. There are a few times in the book when her prudeness or shyness is referenced. Once, Robert is speaking and cuts himself off when he sees that Edna is blushing at something that he is saying. She is not used to the bluntness of the Creole society, but is learning to not be so shocked about topics of conversation.
I don't think that Edna's upbringing has prepared her for the kind of flirtation and attention that Robert is giving her. Madame Ratignolle is worried that Edna may take the attention and mistake it for Robert having feelings for her beyond friendship and admiration.
At 12:32 PM,
Anonymous said…
I feel that Edna is different from her Creole society. She seems to be more independent than all of the other women. This is shown when she moves into her own little house. All of the other were are shocked to hear that she is actually doing it. Also, when it comes to Robert, Edna actually falls in love with him. The other women never actually express their feelings for the men because they all have husbands. She also differs from the other women when it comes to her children. She says it herself that she would not sacrifice her life for them. The other mothers are more willing to do anything for their children than Edna. The women of her society do what is expected of them unlike Edna. Through out the book and even in the end, Edna does what she feels is best for her.
At 2:15 PM,
Anonymous said…
Madame Ratignolle literally means what she says in that if Robert continues to pursue Edna in the same way, Edna will give in to the pursuits. Mrs. Ratignolle is aware that Edna does not have the same sense of playfulness when dealing with Robert's advances and senses Edna's growing admiration for little Bobby Lebrun (just for fun, you know?).
Edna comes from a very different society than the one she currently inhabits. Her father a Protestant minister, her background more "American". Her current situation sees her amidst Catholics and Creoles, more of a French influence. Edna is different than those around her for these same reasons: she is American, no French influence in her life up until Leonce, and her upbringing affects how she exists in New Orleans during the novel.
Anywho, her outside influences blind her to what everyone else sees as Robert merely being playful, and that's basically the biggest cause of her future "awakening." If she doesn't take his actions seriously, none of the rest of the story will take place.
At 2:24 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with most people that Edna is different because she is not Creole and she has had a different upbringing than all the rest. However, I think that Madame Ratignolle warns Robert to stay away from Madame Pontellier because she knows them both so well. Edna is an artistic women with an increasingly individual spirit. As Madame Reitz noted, an artist must be very daring. This type of personality might be more apt to break free from stereotypes and what is expected. Edna keeps her feelings to herself and it is hard to detect what is on her mind. Plus, she has a history of infatuation. Robert, on the other hand, is known as a flirt. This could make things more emotionally confusing. Madame Ratignolle wants to protect both Edna and Robert, both of whom are her good friends.
I don't believe that Edna is really an outcast of society. Yes, she has different views than many of her peers, but she does seem to socialize. For example, her fancy dinner party. Many of the women in Edna's society are jealous of her. Edna is an individual, yes, but I don't agree that we can really call her an outcast the same way that we called Hester, for example, an outcast.
I agree that Edna is a selfish women, but I can see where she is coming from. She is living in an oppressive time where women are viewed as property. I like the fact that she followed her own heart and lived by her own set of rules. I enjoyed this book.
At 2:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Katie. Edna has been brought up differently from everyone else, but that is not the main reason that Madame Ratignolle makes the comment. I think she makes the comment because she knows Edna and Robert. She knows that Edna is not satisfied and very vulnerable especially because her husband is not around much. She finds that she can really communicate with Robert and sees him on a different level and not so much like everyone else in her life.
At 2:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think that Madame Ratignolle is trying to protect Edna more so than Robert. Although I believe she is at the same time warning Robert about the effect he might have on Edna. Robert has a habit of following and flirting with the women on the island. By saying that Edna is "not one of us," she is suggesting that Edna was not raised the same, and wouldn't interpret Robert the way the other women do, and therefore think Edna should. Her interpretation of Robert, Madame Ratignolle realizes, may get her into trouble. As the story unfolds, we see that Edna is in fact different. She changes into herself, rather than the person she was pretending to be. We see that she is sort of wild and longs for freedom and passion rather than the riches as well as responsibilities Creole society has to offer.
At 3:04 PM,
Anonymous said…
By the way Patrick, very funny comment about the new Facebook.
At 10:26 AM,
Anonymous said…
Madame Ratignolle means that Edna doesnt realize Robert's true intentions towards her. But what Madame Ratignolle doesnt realize is that SHE doesnt know Robert's true intentions. Edna is different because she is not actually a Creole. She married into the Creole life and therefore will always be somewhat of an outsider.
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