Roth: American Pastoral
Nathan Zuckerman imagined the Swede's life to be perfect. And the Swede tried to live up to this romanticized view of his life by trying to make it picture perfect; he lived that life until it became dark and violent. Was his life the essential American Dream, or was it a nightmare rather than a pastoral? What comment does the novel's title make upon the story it tells? Feel free to connect this to other texts we've read as well.
Please post your response no later than Monday, November 27.
posted by Monica @ 2:24 PM
22 Comments:
At 2:30 PM,
Anonymous said…
When reading this novel, I found myself comparing the Swede’s life to that of Cesar Castillo from The Mambo Kings Play Songs of Love. They were both on the same quest to complete the “American Dream.” Cesar Castillo led what he thought was the “American dream.” He was lead singer in “Mambo Kings” which played in many up-scale nightclubs. He had luxurious clothing and a nice car. He always went out at nights to bars and expensive dinners. Cesar and Nestor were also featured on the I Love Lucky show singing their musical number “Beautiful Maria of My Soul. But while in the Hotel Splendour, he contemplates his life. It seems to me that his efforts to obtain his “American dream” destroyed his life. His quest for the “American dream” seemed to make Cesar greedy and never being happy with what he achieved. He always wanted more. I do not believe this happened to the Swede. The Swede did have some violent times, but he also had events in his life that were joyful for example, the accomplishments of his three boys. Yes, his life in American had some ups and downs but nobody’s life is perfect.
At 9:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Whitney that Swede does seem a lot like Cesar from Mambo Kings. I think there is one difference however, it seems to me like, for a while, Swede does achieve his American Dream. He has a successful business, a nice house, and a loving family. Unfortunately, Merry destroys this. She disagrees with the views and beliefs of her family, and goes to such extreme lengths of blowing up a building. At this point, I think Swede's life changes from this ideal state to one of disbelief and anger. He does not know for sure if Merry actually did blow up the post office, and even if she did, he still wants her to come home. Even though he believes Merry is capable of committing horrible acts of violence, he still views her as his little girl and wants her to come home so he can take care of her.
At 5:16 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with Nicole that Swede somewhat has the American Dream and then Merry messes that up and turns his life into chaos and disbelief thus his life turns into a nightmare. I feel though that he had something to do with her turning 'bad' though. I found it disturbing that he kissed his daughter in the way he did. This couldn't be good for any child. Merry was a quite disturbed girl though. Through all of Merry's troubles though, Swede calls her, his little girl and loves her.
At 7:59 PM,
Anonymous said…
The novel's title makes the point that any story or situation can be romanticized if looked at from a certain viewpoint. Nathan imagines the Swede's life as the epitome of perfection, where nothing can ever go wrong. In this perspective, it seems that the Swede has actually achieved the American Dream since he lives the life that most Americans cannot quite achieve.
However, the Swede, taking a different perspective on the situation, knows that his life is far from perfect but feels pressured to live up to everyone's expectations of him. The Swede's story shows us that no one can be perfect and that even when it seems that someone has achieved the American Dream, there may be underlying details and facts that could change that view.
At 10:00 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with whitney and nicole. I think that Swede's life is a lot like Cesar Castillo, and I believe that it is different by him getting his American Dream for a while. Every American Dream ends in reality so it was no surprise to me that Merry messes up Swede's American Dream. Merry Disagrees with everything Swede was doing. what stook out to me was that she disagrees with him so much that she blew up a building for it. Even after this, Swede's life changed, all he wanted was for Merry to come home to him so that he could provide for her.
At 9:21 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with most of what has been said already, but I don't think that the Swede was ever really living the American Dream. Even when he was the celebrity of the community and everything seemed golden fro him, he still had the pressure of being "The Swede". Then, later on, he still had to try to live up to the fame that he had. He feels the need to paint his life as if it were the American Dream. I really think Kristen summed it up when she said that people saw the Swede as living the American Dream, but they didn't know what was really going on.
At 12:23 PM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with almost everything that has been said. Cesar Castillo and the Swede do seem similar. But really, you could compare the Swede to almost any character in a book we have read. It is just human nature to try to live up to what others think of you. Everyone has his or her version of an American dream. The Swede and Cesar achieved this more than most. American dreams are almost never are as great as they seem. Look at the amount of celebrities that have actually killed themselves. Their dream was to be rich and famous, but in the end reality sets in. No American dream can last forever. So, yes I think the Swede's life was the American dream. But who really knows what the American dream really is?
At 2:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
While everyone before has compared the Swede's life to the life of Cesar in Mambo Kings. However all throughout the book I thought of The Day of the Locust. The entire premise of Locust was the American Dream. They never really touch the American Dream but they believe they know what it is and reach to achieve it. The Swede seems to have the people in Locust's American Dream. Even though the Swede hates it and is miserable, he has still achieved it with little extra effort.
After all the previous comments I would agree that there is a strong similarity between the Swede and Cesar Castillo. On the outside, from the onlooker, it seems as though they have the perfect American Dream.
At 3:11 PM,
Anonymous said…
The title American Pastoral can relate to today's society. Well, more like what today's society wants, actually what people have wanted for century's. As far as it relating to the novel The Swede had his "American dream." think Swede starts off by living his "American dream", with the right business, perfect wife, kids etc... What every person wants in life. But as the novel goes on it takes a turn for the worst when merry starts to mess things up with her own beliefs and making her own decisions. Just as Whitney mentioned in her blog, Swede and Cesar does have something in common, trying to have the "American Dream" that everybody wants. They start off with it but it takes a turn for the worst.
At 5:09 PM,
Anonymous said…
I also found myself thinking of Cesar Castillo from "Mambo Kings." Both men had the "American dream" that everyone in this country is supposed to strive for, and yet, they both didn't really have to work for their "dream," nor do they really have an appreciation for it.
In addition, I feel like Roth's title, using pastoral, is almost like a cruel irony. The Swede's life was seemingly simple and charmed... until, as Monica posted, that life became dark and violent. So rather than leading the charmed, simple life everyone believes, the Swede's "American dream" was his very own nightmare.
At 6:02 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think that a point that many authors have been trying to make, especially Roth, is that even when you are living or trying to live the American Dream, life is never perfect.
I think that Roth is also trying to show the difference between the Swede's American Dream and Merry's American Dream. The Swede wanted to live the postcard American dream...dream house in a small town, perfect family, etc. Merry wanted to live the American Dream where she was allowed to rebel against a government she didn't agree with. She took the dream and distorted, but eventually fullfilled another part of the American Dream by reinventing herself.
At 7:07 PM,
Anonymous said…
The community seems to have seen "The Swede" as they wanted to see him. Even Zuckerman admits that he was wrong about him. They romanticized him and put him so high on a pedestal, that his fall from grace was extreme. Zuckerman showed us [the readers] that he had a good job that was set up by his father, a family that seemed perfect, and the lifestyle many envy. Yet, none of that could control some of the elements in his life. He had no control (so to speak) over Merry’s actions. Even if she had been raised to be a saint, he could not make her choices for her. It is this romanticized view of who he is that forced him to live a lie and become what he was not. Then when something unexpected and tragic happened, the real view came to light and the nightmare began. “The Swede” wasn’t the perfect role model anymore.
The story shows the basic theme that every other story we’ve read this semester has shown. The American Dream is unattainable or just doesn’t exist. It seems that actively seeking it out leads to dissatisfaction and tragedy. We saw it with both Nestor and Cesar that the American Dream is unattainable or that satisfaction upon attaining it is impossible. It is like a goal that once reached grows and becomes harder. In Love, we learn that there are stipulations for the Dream. That only certain people can really reach it. The same can be said for Ragtime.
At 9:05 PM,
Anonymous said…
I think this book has similar qualities of many books we have read this semester. The "American Dream" in both The Day of the Locust and Mambo Kings, but this book also resembles Ragtime. I think it relates to Ragtime because it took place in America and at a time when things were changing.
I believe that people assumed the Swede's life was the American Dream because of what their idea of the American Dream was. In reality maybe the Swede did not think he was living the Ameican Dream at all. He wasn't happy with things in his life. Although other influences such as his daughter caused most of it. This book like the other books we have read emphasize the importance that the "American Dream' is different for every person. So in the Swede's eyes...no he did not live the American Dream. So I also agree with Nikk thatlife isn't perfect.
The title American Pastoral could mean that you have to take the good with the bad. The perfect life doesn't always exist even in America. American Pastoral seems so perfect but the Swede's life was not perfect on the inside.
At 9:39 PM,
Anonymous said…
I believe that Swede's life was as close to the American Dream as possible, especially since the American Dream is just that a dream. He lived a life in which he was highly idealized, as well as a life in which he owned his own business and was finanically well off. However, the American Dream does come with it's downsides. The life of Swede like the lives of almost everyone has it's problems. For Swede, his problems came in the form of his family. Unlike his praise and fame he received from his fans as an athelte, his family caused him pain. His father constitually controlled his life from where he went to school to what his career should be, where as his daughter the light of his life turned out to despise her father and all that he stood for.
Nathan Zuckerman, like the majority of Swede's adolescent male friends in the late 1940's they saw the Swede as a hero, an icon and a role model in which they aspired to become. They viewed his fame and popularity as godly and the only thing that mattered, when in fact the Swede was hurting inside. It was hard for him being popular and the local hero, carrying the dreams of everyone on his back, yet he pushed on, despite his own wishes.
In regards to the title "American Pastoral" I feel that it shows how the smalltown, local hero is simple that and nothing more. This hero is not godlike or even majestic, but rather an ordinary person who is like everyone else.
At 10:11 PM,
Anonymous said…
I also thought about Caesar when I was reading this book. I feel that everyone wants to obtain the American dream, but in reality it is in fact something that can never really be obtained. This is due to human nature, we are always wanting more or something that we do not have. One of the many flaws in the idea of the American dream is that it is different for every individual, and the influence of others can cause people’s dreams to change due to what they think they should want instead of what they really do want or already have. I think this is part of what happened to “The Swede.”
At 11:14 PM,
Anonymous said…
I also thought a lot about the similarities between the Swede and Cesar, especially when I read this question. I think it brings back the point that no one has the same exact dreams or goals as anyone else. Clearly the Swede's and Cesar's were different. I think that has to do with their cultures and the times in which they lived. In the Jewish culture, the American dream was, essentially, to be white. All the Jewish children of immigrants wanted to get away from their heritage so it made sense that a boy who was great at all these sports that were important in white American culture would be idolized by a whole town. To Cesar, the American dream was to be a successful musician. I think that more than be white, he wanted to be respected and admired by white people. He never wanted to assimilate, his culture was so much a part of who he was and what he wanted from life.
At 11:29 PM,
Anonymous said…
I do not believe the Swede's life was the American dream. When I think of the American dream I think of immigrants who came to America and had to do something spectacular or get lucky in order to live the so called dream. The swede was basically handed his life because he took over something that was already in his family. It is not like he came from poverty and then all of the sudden became wealthy. I believe Cesar had to work hard in order to obtain his version of the American Dream.
At 11:34 PM,
Anonymous said…
Basically, the first part of the Swede's life is seen as the dream life for an American growing up, even in today's terms. He was always the all-star, the most popular guy around. However, once he got into the real world, just like in real life, the falsity of school-boy wonders goes straight out the window. Just as in "Day of the Locust" and "Mambo Kings", the American dream sought after in American Pastoral evades the dreamer ever-so-skillfully. The title refers to that same American dream, the charming and serene American life that so many people have risked their lives looking for, but fewer have actually found.
At 11:38 PM,
Anonymous said…
Jon E. makes an amazing point about the american dream being just that, a dream. And it was to the Swede. It was his dream and he tried to live it out, and it showed on the outside but in reality thats not what it was. He may have had all the things that look like the american dream lived out and yet his life was a nightmare. A narcisstic wife and a psychopathic daughter. I guess if we look at any life it has its ups and downs and every person immigrant or not is bound to have problems. I guess you could say he found the american dream, but I guess it just turned into a nightmare.
At 12:00 AM,
Anonymous said…
After reading American Pastoral and seeing what my other classmates have said about the novel. I agree with the majority that this novel reminds me a lot of the Mambo Kings. Caesar, Nestor, and The Swedes all go through their lives just wanting to achieve the "American Dream". I think that they forget about what good they have in their lives and obsess with the fact of making money and becoming famous. Merry also reminded me of Maria from Mambo Kings because both women had a major effect on the men when it came to reaching their goals. The women had major effects on them and caused much pain for both. I think that neither one did achieve the "American Dream" because of the pain and suffering they went through to get there, was that all worth it?
At 12:14 AM,
Anonymous said…
I agree with almost other students’ opinion. I also recalled Cesar while I was reading “American Pastoral”. Then, I think Michael sorg’s comment is interesting. Swede just gets things from his family, and not like Cesar who does not have anything before he comes to America. However, it seems he is also a person who seeks American dream. In other words, he is the one who lives as the American dream. Both of them live for American dream, though their achievements are different. I think American dream is a keyword for every immigrants and their hope to live.
At 1:42 AM,
Anonymous said…
I think that Swede lived what turned out to be most people's "American Dream". They start out by striving for this impossible dream and find out that it is more difficult to achieve than first thought. So, in order to make it seem like their lives are a success, they act like they live the perfect life, but in reality their life is in shambles. Like most have said, he is a lot like Cesar in the Mambo Kings. He seems to think that having a squeaky clean outward appearance will make his real life seem not so bad.
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